Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V16_4/V16NO469.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 14KB

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 05:06:47
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V16 #469
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Sun, 18 Apr 93       Volume 16 : Issue 469

Today's Topics:
                           Atlas revisited
                       Clementine mission name
                              LRDPA news
                             NASA "Wraps"
                     Space Clipper Launch Article
Talking to Boeing management about SSTO type stuff from a shareholder perspective.
                  Venus Lander for Venus Conditions.
            WANTED - Optical Shaft Encoders for Telescope

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
    "[e-mail]", and (un)subscription requests of the form
    "Subscribe Space <your name>" to one of these addresses: listserv@uga
    (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle
    (THENET), or [e-mail] (Internet).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:26:03 GMT
From: 21012d <[e-mail]>
Subject: Atlas revisited
Newsgroups: sci.space

  I found it very interesting that Atlas depended on pressure to
maintain tank geometry....leads me to the question: ? have any
of the SSTO concepts explored pressurized tankage such that the
launch configuration would be significantly different from the
reentry one?  I have long been facinated by pnumatic structures
as conceived and built by Frei Otto and others, a "ballon" tank
SSTO sounds very clever.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 93  22:19:04
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Clementine mission name
Newsgroups: sci.space

Mark Prado

>Please go just one step further:
>How has the word "Clementine" been associated with mining?

Old pioneer song from the 1850's or so goes as follows:

  "In a cavern, in a canyon,
   Excavating for a mine,
   Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,
   And his daughter, CLEMENTINE"

Chorus:
  "Oh my darling, Oh my darling,
   Oh my darling Clementine.
   You are lost and gone forever,
   Oh my darling Clementine."

 I've also had it explained (but not confirmed from a reliable data
source) that CLEMENTINE is an acronym.  Something like Combined
Lunar Elemental Mapper Experiment on Extended Non Terrestrial
Intercept Near Earth.  Personally, I think that acronym was made up
to fit the name (if it really is an acronym).
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Wales Larrison                           Space Technology Investor

--- Maximus 2.01wb

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 93  00:18:32
From: [e-mail]
Subject: LRDPA news
Newsgroups: sci.space

        Many of you at this point have seen a copy of the
Lunar Resources Data Purchase Act by now. This bill, also known as the Back to
the Moon bill, would authorize the U.S.
government to purchase lunar science data from private
and non-profit vendors, selected on the basis of competitive bidding, with an
aggregate cap on bid awards of $65 million.
        If you have a copy of the bill, and can't or don't want to go through
all of the legalese contained in all Federal legislation,don't both - you have
a free resource to evaluate the bill for you. Your local congressional office,
listed in the phone book,is staffed by people who can forward a copy of the
bill to legal experts. Simply ask them to do so, and to consider supporting
the Lunar Resources Data Purchase Act.
        If you do get feedback, negative or positive, from your congressional
office, please forward it to: David Anderman
3136 E. Yorba Linda Blvd., Apt G-14, Fullerton, CA 92631,
or via E-Mail to: [e-mail].
        Another resource is your local chapter of the National Space Society.
Members of the chapter will be happy to work with you to evaluate and support
the Back to the Moon bill. For the address and telephone number of the nearest
chapter to you, please send E-mail, or check the latest issue of Ad Astra, in
a library near you.
        Finally, if you have requested, and not received, information about
the Back to the Moon bill, please re-send your request. The database for the
bill was recently corrupted, and some information was lost. The authors of the
bill thank you for your patience.


--- Maximus 2.01wb

------------------------------

From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NASA "Wraps"
Newsgroups: sci.space

Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 03:41:01 GMT
Lines: 91
Sender: [e-mail]
Source-Info:  Sender is really [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>I don't care who told you this it is not generally true. I see EVERY single
>line item on a contract and I have to sign it. There is no such thing as
>wrap at this university.

Dennis, I have worked on or written proposals worth tens of millions
of $$. Customers included government (including NASA), for profit and
non-profit companies. All expected a wrap (usually called a fee). Much
of the work involved allocating and costing the work of subcontractors.
The subcontractors where universities, for-profits, non-profits, and
even some of the NASA Centers for the Commercialization of Space. ALL
charged fees as part of the work. Down the street is one of the NASA
commercialization centers; they charge a fee.

Now, I'm sure your a competent engineer Dennis, but you clearly lack
experience in several areas. Your posts show that you don't understand
the importance of integration in large projects. You also show a lack
of understanding of costing efforts as shown by your belief that it
is reasonable to charge incremental costs for everything. This isn't
a flame, jsut a statement.

Your employer DOES charge a fee. You may not see it but you do.

>>Sounds like they are adding it to their overhead rate. Go ask your
>>costing people how much fee they add to a project.

>I did they never heard of it but suggest that, like our president did, that
>any percentage number like this is included in the overhead.

Well there you are Dennis. As I said, they simply include the fee in
their overhead. Many seoparate the fee since the fee structure can
change depending on the customer.

>No Allen you did not. You merely repeated allegations made by an Employee
>of the Overhead capital of NASA.

Integration, Dennis, isn't overhead.

>Nothing that Reston does could not be dont
>better or cheaper at the Other NASA centers  where the work is going on.

Dennis, Reston has been the only NASA agency working to reduce costs. When
WP 02 was hemoraging out a billion $$, the centers you love so much where
doing their best to cover it up and ignore the problem. Reston was the
only place you would find people actually interested in solving the
problems and building a station.

>Kinda funny isn't it that someone who talks about a problem like this is
>at a place where everything is overhead.

When you have a bit more experience Dennis, you will realize that
integration isn't overhead. It is the single most important part
of a successful large scale effort.

>Why did the Space News artice point out that it was the congressionally
>demanded change that caused the problems? Methinks that you are being
>selective with the facts again.

The story you refer to said that some NASA people blamed it on
Congress. Suprise suprise. The fact remains that it is the centers
you support so much who covered up the overheads and wouldn't address
the problems until the press published the story.

Are you saying the Reston managers where wrong to get NASA to address
the overruns? You approve of what the centers did to cover up the overruns?

>If it takes four flights a year to resupply the station and you have a cost
>of 500 million a flight then you pay 2 billion a year. You stated that your
>"friend" at Reston said that with the current station they could resupply it
>for a billion a year "if the wrap were gone". This merely points out a
>blatent contridiction in your numbers that understandably you fail to see.

You should know Dennis that NASA doesn't include transport costs for
resuply. That comes from the Shuttle budget. What they where saying
is that operational costs could be cut in half plus transport.

>Sorry gang but I have a deadline for a satellite so someone else is going
>to have to do Allen's math for him for a while. I will have little chance to
>do so.

I do hope you can find the time to tell us just why it was wrong of
Reston to ask that the problems with WP 02 be addressed.

  Allen

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Lady Astor:   "Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee!"   |
| W. Churchill: "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."             |
+----------------------60 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 93  22:35:44
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Clipper Launch Article
Newsgroups: sci.space

To All -- I thought the net would find this amusing..

From the March 1993 "Aero Vision" (The newsletter for the Employees
of McDonnell Douglas Aerospace at Huntington Beach, California).

  SPACE CLIPPERS LAUNCHED SUCCESSFULLY

  "On Monday, March 15 at noon, Quest Aerospace Education, Inc.
  launched two DC-Y Space Clippers in the mall near the cafeteria.
  The first rocket was launched by Dr. Bill Gaubatz, director and
  SSTO program manager, and the second by Air Force Captain Ed
  Spalding, who with Staff Sgt. Don Gisburne represents Air Force
  Space Command, which was requested by SDIO to assess the DC-X for
  potential military operational use.  Both rocket launches were
  successful.  The first floated to the ground between the cafeteria
  and Building 11, and the second landed on the roof of the
  cafeteria.

  Quest's Space Clipper is the first flying model rocket of the
  McDonnell Douglas DC-X.  The 1/122nd semi-scale model of the
  McDonnell Douglas Delta Clipper has an estimated maximum altitude
  of 300 feet.  The Space Clippers can be used in educational
  settings to teach mathematics and science, as well as social
  studies and other applications.  The Space Clipper is available
  either in the $35 Space Clipper outfit, which includes everything
  needed for three launches, or as individual rockets for $12 each.
  Both are available through hobby shops or by calling 1-800-858-
  7302."

By the way -- this is not an endorsement to buy the product nor is
it an advertisement to buy the product.  I make no claims about the
product.  This is posted for public information only (hey, I found
it amusing...), and is merely a repeat of what was included in the
MDSSC Huntington Beach Newsletter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Wales Larrison                         Space Technology Investor


--- Maximus 2.01wb

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:18:52 GMT
From: 21012d <[e-mail]>
Subject: Talking to Boeing management about SSTO type stuff from a shareholder perspective.
Newsgroups: sci.space

  I might suggest giving the management some more mumble time by asking
the very leading question (in two or three parts)
   What are your long term expectations of space market, what projects
specifically are they funding by internal funds and at what levels
and what competition do you expect in this  area. (This last point
is always worth hitting upper management with "gently" if you want
them to think and as hard as you can if you have a good case that
there really is competion)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:39:55 GMT
From: 21012d <[e-mail]>
Subject: Venus Lander for Venus Conditions.
Newsgroups: sci.space

  I doubt there are good prospects for  a self armoring system
for venus surface conditions (several hundred degrees, very high
pressure of CO2, possibly sulfuric and nitric acids or oxides
but it is a notion to consider for outer planets rs where you might
pick up ices under less extream upper atmosphere conditions buying
deeper penetration.  A nice creative idea, unlikly but worthy of
thinking about.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 06:21:31 GMT
From: "Steven R. Garman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: WANTED - Optical Shaft Encoders for Telescope
Newsgroups: sci.optics,sci.astro,sci.space

[Also posted in misc.forsale.wanted,misc.wanted,ne.wanted,ny.wanted,nj.wanted]

WANTED:  Optical Shaft Encoders

Quantity 2
Single-ended
Incremental

Needed to encode the movements of a 16" Cassegrain telescope.  The telescope
is in the observatory of the Univ. of Mass. at Boston.  The project is being
managed by Mr. George Tucker, a graduate student at UMB.  Please call him, or
email/call me, if you have one or two of the specified type of encoder.  Of
course, due to our low funding level we are looking for a price that is
sufficiently lower than that given for new encoders.  :)

George Tucker
617-965-3408

ME:
--
[e-mail] | 6172876077 univ | 6177313637 home | Standard Disclaimer
Boston Massachusetts USA

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 469
------------------------------